Location: Flemings Hotel. Private meeting.
1. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE: "For what purpose has the £500 appearing against the U.S.A. account been given?"
SECRETARY FOR FINANCE: "This matter should be referred to the Minister for Foreign Affairs."
2. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE: "For what purpose has the £100 against the Argentine account been given?"
SECRETARY FOR FINANCE: "It is a payment on account for the establishment of a Consulate in Buenos Ayres."
Eamonn Bulfin had established an office in Buenos Aires.
3. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE: "What are the items which make up £606 6s. 6d., payments to Ministers, etc.?"
The SECRETARY FOR FINANCE: "The sum is made up of items of salaries paid to Ministers and Directors of Departments, as follows:—
£100 0s. 0d. to E. de Valera, 1/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£57 7s. 3d. to Count Plunkett, 2/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£57 7s. 3d. to Mdme. Marklevicz, 2/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£57 7s. 3d. to L. MacCosgair, 2/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£57 7s. 3d. to M.O Coileain, 2/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£87 10s. 0d. to L. Ginnell, 1/4/'19 to 30/6/'19.
£47 10s. 0d. to E. Blythe, 4/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£109 7s. 6d. to S.T. O'Kelly, 8/2/'19 to 31/5/'19.
£32 10s. 0d. to R. Mulcahy, 21/4/'19 to 31/5/'19.
4. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE: "Who sanctioned payment at the rate of £500 per year to the Secretary of the Dáil?"
SECRETARY FOR DEFENCE: "When the Foreign Relations Committee handed over their responsibilities to the Dáil, the Ministry consulted Mr. de Valera, and he agreed to the appointment of Mr. Gavan Duffy. The latter had to give up his position and we decided to pay him a salary. I do not think it was necessary to come to the Dáil to ask for sanction for such an appointment. I can well understand that Ministers cannot sanction payment to themselves, but if they are to have any responsibility they should be at liberty to make appointments such as they have made."
ACTING-PRESIDENT: "If the Ministry is to sit while the Dáil is not in session and be precluded from making necessary appointments, it would be powerless. If ratification is now required to Mr. O'Kelly's salary I move that the Dáil do now ratify the payment of a salary to him of £350. As to Mr. Duffy's salary being more than the salary of individual Ministers, there is no unusual discrepancy in that. Ministers in most of the countries of the world are not paid the same salary as Officials and Ambassadors."
W. COSGRAVE (Kilkenny N.) seconded the motion.
R. SWEETMAN (Wexford N.) thought that they should now decide what appointments the Ministry were empowered to make without reference to the Dáil.
The SECRETARY FOR DEFENCE pointed out that if it were decided now that they could not make appointments without sanction of the Dáil they would be held up in an urgent case until the Dáil met.
Alderman T. KELLY (St. Stephen's Green) said that his objection was to the appointment of members of the Dáil to salaried positions without consulting the Dáil.
He moved an amendment that during the time Sean T. O'Kelly was on foreign service in Paris his salary be at the rate of £500 per year.
Dr. CUSACK (Galway N.) seconded the amendment.
The ACTING-PRESIDENT announced that the Ministry would accept the amendment and also the suggestion of Alderman T. Kelly (St. Stephen's Green) that all appointments of Members of Dáil to salaried positions would be submitted to Dáil for ratification.
The amendment to increase Mr. O'Kelly's salary was put and agreed to.
J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) asked leave to withdraw his motion, "That the annual salary of the Secretary to the Dáil be £350 and not £500 as was given by the Ministry without the sanction of the Dáil."
The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
5. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE:
(a) “How many paid officials are employed by the Dáil?”
(b) “What are their salaries?”
(c) “How much per week is their present cost?”
SECRETARY FOR FINANCE:
(a) “There are seven officials excluding the Secretary to the Cabinet.”
(b) “D. O'Hegarty, Clerk to Dáil, £250 per annum.
M. Lynch, Official Translator, £250 per annum.
P. O'Siochain, Private Secretary to Home Secretary, £260 per annum. (This was his salary from the Sinn Fein Organisation.)
D. O'Donohue, Accountant, £208 per annum.
F. Murphy, Assistant, £130 per annum.
Miss Mason, Typist, £104 per annum.
R. Conlon, Messenger, £52 per annum."
(c) “At the rate of £24 2s. 4d.”
6. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE:
"Who are the Officials or employes working under Sean T. O'Kelly and G. Gavan Duffy? Who appointed them, and what precautions were taken as to their fitness before they were appointed?"
SECRETARY FOR FINANCE:
"The Paris Staff are:—
Victor Collins, former Paris correspondent of the New York Sun and Laffans Bureau, a New York news agency. Had a stormy relationship with Seán T. O’Kelly and George Gavan Duffy.
Mrs. Gavan Duffy (unpaid),
Margaret Gavan Duffy, nee Sullivan, secretary to the Irish Literary Society founded in London by W.B. Yeats, and daughter of A.M. Sullivan of The Nation.
Annie Vivanti Chartres, British-born Italian writer. Assisted Irish delegation in Versailles in 1919.
SECRETARY FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: "We got the assistance of Victor Collins, who was Paris Correspondent of an American Paper. There was the strongest reason for sending Mr. Gavan Duffy to Paris, Madame Vivanti is an Italian lady well known as a leading novelist in Italy. She was notified by an Italian lawyer to leave Italy for the good of her health, and we availed of her services. If any payments were made to Mr. Caulfield they were very small, and are included in the general expenses of Mr. O'Kelly."
Mr. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) asked why Mr. de Roiste's services were not availed of when offered to the Ministry. He had a passport, or was promised one. In reply to a question by the ACTING-PRESIDENT, he said that he had not Mr. de Roiste's authority for putting the question.
The ACTING-PRESIDENT replied that Mr. de Roiste mentioned that he was promised a Passport, but that he never heard anything further from him.
7. LIAM DE ROISTE (Cork City): "Does the amount paid in respect of the American Delegation represent the total cost, or does it refer to expenses in Dublin alone?"
SECRETARY FOR FINANCE: "The amount is in respect of the entire journey through Ireland. The greater part represents expenditure in Dublin which works out at approximately £327 10s. 0d. There is a further sum of £77 5s. 0d. due in respect of this."
8. J. MACDONAGH (Tipperary N.) to the MINISTER FOR FINANCE: "Whether in view of the promise given by the Minister for Finance at the meeting of the Dáil on 1st-2nd April, any constructive proposal will be put forward at this meeting of the Dáil for the introduction of a scheme of banking suitable to the needs of Irish Trade, Commerce, Agriculture, and Industries?"
SECRETARY FOR FINANCE: "It is clear to anybody that the position depends on the amount available. There are no proposals before the Dáil for the reason that the necessary information is not available. A certain scheme is under contemplation, but I do not propose bringing it forward until further details are forthcoming."